Episode 22 Podcast > Full Transcript
Nicole Witt, Intro:
Today, we're going to discuss a topic that can make some people uncomfortable: preparing for a transracial adoption. There are wide ranging points of view on this topic, from the approach of “Love is enough, and you shouldn't have to worry about anything else,” to the other extreme of “You're not doing enough if you don't relocate to a place and live a lifestyle in which you are the minority and the child is in the majority.” So, as with most things in life, the reality just isn't that straightforward. There are so many nuances. And ultimately, the child's best interests need to be kept at the forefront of any and all discussions. So, how can one properly, yet realistically, prepare to adopt and raise a child of a different race?
To help us dig into this important topic, my guest today is Isaac Etter. Isaac is an activist and social entrepreneur. He was transracially adopted at the age of two. He's the founder of Identity, which is a startup focused on using technology to help foster and adoptive parents thrive.
Nicole Witt:
I so appreciate you being here with us today, Isaac.
Isaac Etter:
Absolutely. I'm excited to be here. Nicole, Thanks so much for having me.
Nicole:
Of course. Of course. So, having read your personal story, I know that it's quite powerful and probably the best place for us to begin. Would you mind sharing a bit about your personal history with our audience?
Isaac:
Absolutely, yes. So, I was adopted when I was two years old. My birth mother tried to raise me for about two years. And sadly, an all too common story in our child welfare system of poverty, is really what led me to being placed into the child welfare system. But I was adopted within a year, which I think is also another fantastic story, if that makes sense.
Really, I think the start of the adoption journey can be such a complex part of it; the family separation and things like that. But we often growing up kind of related my story to the story of Moses, where, I got sent down the river and it was like later that day I got adopted.
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
It's actually true that my parents came in to the adoption agency within a day of me being dropped off there.
Nicole:
Oh, my goodness.
Isaac:
And so, it is quite an interesting story to begin to begin my life as an adoptee. And so, that is beautiful in its own way, I think. And so, within about, I think, within about three years, my family relocated from where I was adopted, which was in Fredericksburg, Virginia, to Lancaster, Pennsylvania. In Lancaster, Pennsylvania, we're known for like Amish people {crosstalk 3:12}.
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
Not a super diverse area. At five years old, moving to an area like this. You know, five and six is really where you start to become a little bit aware of your surroundings. So, around this time of my life, we moved to Rohrerstown, Lancaster. My dad works for a private Christian school. So, I'm going to a private Christian school, which is also known not to be a super diverse area, especially in like the early 2000, maybe a little bit more today. So, I grew up not really seeing anybody that looked like me.
My parents ended up homeschooling us. My dad ended up working for online schools for a little while. So, around third grade, I became homeschooled. And so, I spent the rest of my under, whatever you would call it – grammar, middle or high school, being homeschooled.
And so, I kind of had like these multiple degrees of separation, if that made sense.
Nicole:
Right. Right.
Isaac:
Not only did I start off at a kind of small conservative school that wasn't diverse, but then I was homeschooled, which is a less diverse population too. So, growing up, really the only people I knew of color were also adopted. There were moments that I thought about race. When I was ten years old, I remember, coming home from a church event and I went to go brush my teeth. And I looked in the mirror and I remember I was shocked to see a black person.
Nicole:
Wow.
Isaac:
And everybody else at that church event, they were they were white. And so, I remember that was the first time I ever really thought about being black and felt embarrassment and shame around being black, just because just – It's almost like, as a kid, you just want to fit in. And so, I spent that whole night, at this church event, thinking I'm just like everybody else and then just to be hit with it at the end of the night.
And that's really the first time I really thought about being black and then didn't really think about it that much again until I was around 16 years old. And then, I was on Tumblr. I'm not sure if people remember Tumblr. I think it might be still around, but it was really popular in the early 2010s. And I was one of those kids who was always on Tumblr.
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
And I remember one day I came across this hashtag called #blackoutday. I mean, this was something that I think in 2014, if I'm correct, college students were doing in solidarity with basically the Black Lives Matter movement. And for the first time in my life, I was coming across all this; the people were talking about police brutality, racism, all these things that I'd never heard about or been taught about or even thought about, to be honest. And as a 16-year-old who had never had any conversations around race or much less racism. You know what I mean? Like, of course, you do Martin Luther King Jr. roles. You do the typical stuff. But I wouldn't say that I was having any conversations or instances where people were pointing out racism to me.
Nicole:
Okay.
Isaac:
And so, this was all very new, even as a 16-year-old. But I remember that it sent me into this, like, kind of weird place of contemplation. Because when you're 16, you're the only black kid in your family, you're reading all this stuff on the Internet. And of course, some of it was really out there. You know what I mean? So, I'd see stuff like, all white people are racist. And I would be like, “I don't know what to think about this. I'm 16 years old. I only know white people.”
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
So, I'm in this place of like trying to figure out, like, what if this is real? What if it isn't? I didn't even know if I believed in racism at all, going through this year.
And then on the night I turned 17, me and my friends, we were walking late at night. You got to remember Amish country kind of area. And we were coming down this hill and a cop car came to kind of like the other end of the hill, like it's top of the hill splashing around a light, like it was looking for somebody. And me and my friends, we started running. And so, like, as we were running, one of my friends shouts out, “It's all right. Isaac's the only one that's going to get in trouble.”
Nicole:
Wow.
Isaac:
And it was really that moment for me that I realized that at least some of what I was reading on the Internet was true. And not only did my 16-, 17-year-old friends know it, but if they knew it, then my family knew it and nobody prepared me; like nobody talked, nobody warned me. If my 16-year-old friend will shout this out casually, I mean, he's aware of this. That means that nobody decided to tell me that that was going to be my experience.
So, I went off to college and first thing in college, started experiencing racism, from the micro to the macro level. I mean, it’s just really shocking. That's, I think, for an adoptee, especially a transracial adoptee, we have such a bond with our family, and that also includes them being white and things like that that we feel a safety in those communities. And I remember one of the hardest parts about college, for me, was feeling like this community, in which I felt safe in, I no longer felt safe in. That was probably one of the biggest hard points. Not that I'd say like all of my white friends were like that, but it felt so weird to no longer naturally mould in. Because when we're in high school and middle school and grammar school like our parents are our representation in, if that makes sense. You know what I mean?
Nicole:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Isaac:
Yeah. Nobody knew me without my parents. But when I got to college, nobody knew my parents were white or knew me outside of just how I looked.
Nicole:
Right, they didn't have that context and that background.
Isaac:
Yeah. And so, it was very strange to have that experience all of a sudden. And so, for me, that led to ending up dropping out of college and going to Georgia for a little bit and trying to find my own racial identity. And thankfully, went through a really beautiful process. Me and my family also felt some tension there, too. My family not really understanding the pain that I was experiencing and the pain that that was causing me. But thankfully, while I was in Georgia, my family actually kind of did their own work, too. They read books, they met with people. They kind of got to understanding of the fact that I was really having a different experience than them as a black man.
And it's I think it's really because of me getting that space and them doing that work that we were able to come back together as a family really powerfully. And for them to see me and see that I was going to experience something different, something that they probably didn't even understand how to prepare me for, but they were going to do their best now to understand me, listen and be there for me through what were some hard times. And I think that's really also what gave weight to my work in adoption. And so, it kind of gives you a kind of like the full circle.
The reason that I ended up working in transracial adoption was because not just because of my own story, but because I saw that my family could do a 180. They could become aware of the situation, really understand, and then do work to support me. And I always have thought that if my family could go through that, that means that any family, no matter what their views are, can be successful transracial, adoptive parents. And all they need, and all my parents probably needed in the early 2000, was the right knowledge, the right resources and the right support. Because parenting is hard, parenting multiple kids is hard. But when my parents took the time to listen to me to find mentors that could help them understand me even more, read books, that made a world of a difference in how we were able to communicate and be there for each other. So, now my work is all about giving that to parents earlier and earlier in the process. If they have a two-year-old or a one-year-old, I want to start the process then of being like, “Hey, let's open up these doors. Let's talk about what can be best so that as they get older and older, as they experience things, you know how to react, you know how to handle it and you know how to support them so that they can see you as a safe and loving space to go through all the things that they may go through.”
Nicole:
Right. Right. Well, I really appreciate you sharing your story. It really is, to me, so powerful and it's both beautiful and tragic and happy and sad and sort of all rolled up into one. From your materials that I've read, I think it would be helpful for us to go through an important definition and some facts to start with. So, would you start by giving us the definition of the word bias?
Isaac:
Yeah. So, bias is a disproportionate weight in favor or against an idea or a thing or a person. And it's usually, I always say this word wrong, but prejudicial. I can never say it right. Excuse me, but it's usually in in a way that is judgmental.
Nicole:
Okay.
Isaac:
It's usually in a way that is derogatory, if that makes sense. We can think about bias on a lot of levels. You know, like I have a bias to sit in the comfy seat rather than the hard chair, but then you could take bias to another level, which is that I'd rather have a Mexican driver than an Indian driver. But why? And the why is kind of that underlying bias. And we might say that one time we got in a car accident with an Indian driver, and so now we don't like any Indian drivers. Well, that's a biased based view, though it might seem rational in our heads, and it probably was formed in an instance, that is a bias, though it may not cause direct harm.
Nicole:
And I know you talk about, in your materials, how everyone has biased views and opinions. That it's sort of impossible to avoid.
Isaac:
Yeah.
Nicole:
But sort of, why is that? There are a couple different ways that bias can get into our lives, correct?
Isaac:
Absolutely. One of the main ways – So, there's two types of bias: implicit and explicit. But implicit bias, which is the one that I think most people talk about the most, is kind of like this unconscious bias that we form. And this gets formed really through our lives. And so, you go to a school and it's 98% of one race, and the teachers are almost 100% of one race. And then you go to college and all your friends are of the same race. And the reason why I'm not giving a specific race is because I think this shows the picture that it can really happen to any group.
And then you meet somebody of a different race and your only perception of them may be what you've learned from media, TV, books or how maybe people in your group have talked about them. And so, you have kind of already this mental established bias about somebody because of your upbringing and your life and your community. One of the biggest ways we see this play out is obviously through black and white relationships, and certainly some other – We could have the same conversation around immigrants and immigration. But you might grow up in an all-white community and one of the only representations you get of black people is sports and maybe like Fresh Prince of Bel Air.
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
So, we all get that. We all love Fresh Prince. And so, you grow up, you don't have any black friends, but you like Fresh Prince and you like the NFL and the NBA. And so, your perception of black people kind of becomes whatever you hear around. So, maybe your parents watch the news and there's a lot of black crime. And so, these things start to seep into your subconscious because you don't have a counter, right? You don't have a black friend or a black family that you hang out with where you can see other perspectives or you can see kind of like a diverse set of how people are. Your mind gets kind of triggered to associate. And so then, later in life, you're walking down the sidewalk and a black man with dreads starts walking towards you and you get nervous. But why do you get nervous?
And so, that's kind of how implicit bias kind of starts to seep into our lives. It's very subconscious. It can happen really to any group. But it's really that that non-connection with the person who we're forming the bias against that really kind of keeps that implicit bias in place.
Now, explicit bias is really a conscious: you've decided you don't like this group of people or you've decided you don't like this thing. And I think we all are kind of much more aware of that.
Nicole:
Okay. Okay. And so, why is it so important for those who are considering trans racial adoption to be aware of their biases and which type of bias it is?
Isaac:
Yeah. So, one of the biggest reasons is because, especially if you're a transracial parent, how you treat people that look like your child is really a great indicator for how the world and how people will see your child. And so, my mom tells this story, and me and my mom have done some content together, which is always fun. But my mom told this story on a podcast we did together where she was driving through the city, picking me up; Lancaster has kind of like a downtown area. Through kind of like the side of her eye, she saw a black man at her window and got scared; like she was ready to basically speed off. And then as she looked over, she saw it was me. And how that was such a crazy moment for her because she realized that, “Oh my gosh, when I thought this was another black person, I was filled with terror and fear. But when I saw it was my son, it went away.”
And so, being aware of that feeling, I think, gives a lot of weight to really understanding the experience that, one, your child will have in the world, but then also to unearth some of that bias that's inside of you. Because ultimately, whatever race your child is, how you view them is always going to be as your child. You're going to love them and you're going to see them as amazing and everything. And so, the idea of anybody doing anything hateful or racist to them is going to seem absurd to you as a parent. But the truth is that when you're not with your child and they're walking down the street alone, somebody else is having a very different projection onto them.
So, really being aware of that helps you, I think, have meaningful conversations with them about maybe how to handle those situations, helps you also maybe have meaningful conversations with people in your friend group and it just helps you be ready for maybe the day that they come to you and they've had that instance and they need somebody to talk through it. And if you've done the work and you've taken time to understand that this could happen, and this is the world that we live in, sadly, then when they come to you with those topics, you're a little bit more prepared as well, I think, to sit with them and understand them and to be there for them and to really let them know that, like though that may have happened to them, that's not how you see them.
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
Because really what you want to do is you want to make sure your child understands that you are a safe space. And you can't be a safe space if you're denying their experiences or if you don't believe their experiences, or if you haven't done the work to really understand how they may walk through the world. And that was the biggest divide between me and my family was they just really couldn't understand me when I said that these things were happening.
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
And so, it's like you doing this work really makes it easy for you to become the safe space for them.
Nicole:
Can you explain the difference between one's race and one's identity and how those two interact?
Isaac:
Absolutely. So, race; we're born how we're born. Your race and who you are; black, white, Asian, we don't know that before we're here. And so, that's going to be what it is. There's nothing we can do to change that and there's nothing we can do to change necessarily anything that comes along with it. So, whatever you might say that is we can't do anything about that.
Identity is a little bit more complex because there are certain identifiers that we might just be; like black, Asian, Hispanic, but there's also a lot of identifiers that we choose. And so, this could be Christian, this could be artist, this could be career.
To kind of get into the weeds here, a lot of adoptees don't choose their race and they don't choose their adoption. They don't choose their adoption, right?
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
Whether good or bad; they don't choose to be adopted. And so, what happens is they're adopted into homes that may not make space for them to understand all parts of their identity. And so, their identity kind of gets jumbled up, if that makes sense. I was a black kid in an all-white home but didn't really necessarily feel like a black person or identify as a black person outside of just like the fact that it was there.
And so, as I went into adulthood, my racial identity was kind of all mixed up because, yes, I was a black person, but I didn't necessarily feel like a black person, and I didn't feel like people saw me as a black person. But I went to college and people treated me like a black person. And so, these are kind of how I think race and identity, especially for transracial adoptees, gets kind of jumbled up. Especially if they haven't had parents that really understand how to put them on a good identity formation track; like really create opportunities for them to one talk, but also be in a community that looks like them.
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
This is how things get really kind of mixed up.
Nicole:
Right? Well, that's actually a perfect segue into some of our listeners questions. So, I think this has been sort of really good background or basis for some of these questions. But what can adoptive parents do to help their child develop that positive racial identity?
Isaac:
Yeah, I think one of the first things you do is you do whatever work it seems like you need to do. And a lot of this comes down to one kind of looking at your circle and saying, “Do I have any friends or anybody in my life that can really weigh in to my child's experience?” And so, it's not quite the extreme that you talked about, about moving to a new area. But if you go to a church and there's no black families there, but you have a black child, you might want to be creative about how you find some adult community that looks like your child.
And the benefits of this are, one, I think, on a personal level, we as people, we all benefit from diverse community. We all benefit from what we learn from other people, people that are different from us. We find a lot of value there just inherently, even before it comes to parenting. And so, I always suggest that just because it's {indistinct 22:28} parents will find a beautiful experience there and beautiful friendships.
But then when you get into this kind of you get into skincare issues or maybe hair care issues or maybe something happened at school, you're not necessarily just running to like a guidebook or a parenting book or the online forum or to {indistinct 22:50} or to me. You actually kind of have this kind of built-in circle where it's like, “Hey, I have a black friend that they have black kids.” And like, “I'm sure if my son is dealing with this, their kids are dealing with it, too.” And so, like, you have this kind of built-in network to kind of be like, “Hey, how are you handling the kid on the playground that called your kid the N-word? Like, how are you dealing with that? And like, how do you deal with kids that make fun of all those things?” And so, that's always the first step.
Then I think it's also finding community for your child to be in where they see themselves. I've heard of adoptive parents doing things like African dance. This can be sports. This can be the kind of school that you send your child to. Really helping them see themselves in the community. Because it starts to pay off in kind of small ways when they're younger, but it pays off in big ways when they're older. Me going to college and like meeting black people for the first time in college, really, and it was awkward and weird and like didn't really feel like I fit in with black people and like, being around black people was uncomfortable for me because I was never around them.
And so, you might not really see the extreme payoff when they're five, but when they're 18 and they feel very normal and comfortable in black settings, you'll realize how valuable it was, as you hear stories like mine and other adoptees.
And community is a big one. And again, you don't have to be extreme here. It's really just like rethinking which programs you put your kids in. And so, it's just a little bit of a mental shift. Maybe you need to switch churches, maybe that's something you can do comfortably. Maybe you just find some programs that are in in a different area that you haven't looked into.
And so, I always just encourage parents to be creative here, to think outside of their normal boundaries, to really kind of do a deeper dive and things like African dance people might not ever think of, but I have adopted friends that grew up in African dance and talk about how much they loved it. And so, thinking of ideas like this.
And then think it's conversations. When you get into that, especially like five-, six-, seven-year-old time frame, you really have to start opening the door for your child to come to you with things that are uncomfortable that are happening to them. I was homeschooled, so I had much less than normal people of these instances. But a lot of my friends that went to school, public schools these instances were happening all the time; why is your family white? Why are you black? You have to start creating the door for these conversations to happen really comfortably because, again, it's one of those things that pays off kind of in the next decade. As you become the safe space for your five-, six-, seven-year-old to talk about them feeling self-conscious about being black, what that leads to in their teenage and adult life is that they feel comfortable coming to you about deeper and deeper issues.
Nicole:
Right. So, you've already addressed some of this, but I just want to make sure we don't miss any anything important. I know that that you often sort of break out your tips by age group, so just to make it I think a little bit – I think that makes a little bit easier for the parents to digest. It's not like, “Oh, I don't have to do all these things right at once. So, what should I be prepared for, kind of, at different stages along the way.” So, is there anything you kind of want to add or elaborate on for some of the different age groups? Like what should transracial adoptive parents do when they have a toddler versus a tween versus a teenager and even going into adulthood?
Isaac:
No, that's great – And I do agree that it helps to do the age range thing. And that's why in the practical guide, we do it by the age groups because it can all be overwhelming. And thanks for that kind of redirect here. Yeah.
So, I always start at 0 to 5 because this is when it's kind of a little bit more easy and fun, right?
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
You know, they’re young. They don't really know that much. They're just kind of – My son is two and a half and he's certainly not having deep conversations about race.
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
And so, a 0 to 2, it's all about how can we make their difference something wonderful, something normal, something normal that they see. Families look all types of different ways now. And so, it's the time to have like the toys that are different races, the shows that represent them, posters that represent them. And all this stuff is like really easy now because kids toys are so diverse now. So, it's really about representation and kind of just creating a normal normalcy about them being whatever race they are and it not being weird or different. And for it to not be weird or different, it has to be represented in your home. You can't have all white toys and a black child and them not eventually be like, “Well, none of these toys look like me.” And so, that's all about kind of creating this like positive idea around the fact that, yes, we are an adoptive family. We are a transracial family, and there's nothing wrong that's normal. That's it can be beautiful.
And then once you get to 5 to 12 is usually how I put this. 5 to 12 is where you really start establishing yourself as a safe space. Now, that's where we get into kind of opening the doorways for those conversations that I was just mentioning. 5 to 12 is when they're really going to start becoming aware of the fact that they are different. And all the work you've done in the past, it doesn't go away and it still is foundational. But what happens at 5 to 12, as we know, is that a lot of other voices get inputted. And at the same time, kids want nothing more than to fit in and to be like everybody else. So, even though you've laid that amazing foundation of like, yes, we're a different family and yes, that's beautiful. Yes, that's okay. Yes, that's wonderful. Now, you have the kids at school who are wondering, “Hey, like, why is your family white?” and that's making them feel a type of way that's making them stand out.
And so, it's this time that parents can really do that, I think, crucial work that most adoptive parents, especially transracial adoptive parents, missed, especially for my generation and back, which was that's the time you actually start having the conversations and building the doorways for your child to express themselves and to be vulnerable with you.
It doesn't mean you have to have this big conversation about race, but what it does mean is that when after school you take them out and maybe you're like, “Hey, did anything happen at school today? Anything uncomfortable?” Maybe you open up those doorways for them to be able to talk about how it does make them feel uncomfortable when people ask why is their family white and they're black? It gives them the opportunity to kind of see you as a space where they can bring those feelings to.
Because I think a lot of kids, especially a lot of adoptees, it either results in like anger or in kind of like just kind of shoving those feelings down. And so, I think when parents create the space for their adoptee through that age range to really be vulnerable, then you also set in their head the idea of where you stand. Me, I never, ever knew where my parents stood on race. When I was on Tumblr at 16 and they were saying, like, all white people think this way and all people do this, I would have no clue whether my parents thought that way or not because my parents never said anything to me around race or racism.
I didn't think they were racist, but at this 5 to 12 time period when kids may be saying mean things to them on the playground or they're being self-conscious about being black, or they're having all these different emotions come up, you also set a tone for where you stand. “Hey, it's totally wrong that that person called you that name on the playground and I want you to know that we don't believe, we don't talk like that, we don't see you like that, and we're not going to stand for that.”
And so, it becomes this really powerful mental thing between the adoptive parent and the adoptee to also set a standard for where you are. “Hey, nobody's going to talk to you like that. We're going to make sure to have a conversation about it, because that's not how we see you. You are beautiful.” All these things, it becomes really powerful.
Nicole:
Yeah. And I think that's so important to talk about that as, as a foundation, right? Because as a parent of two teens, I know that when you once you hit the teen years for any family, that's when, you know, they're not with you all the time. They're out in the world more. They're becoming exposed to more different kinds of scenarios. And things can get riskier and the stakes can get higher. So, where do you think shift at that point?
Isaac:
Yeah. And think like when you have those really great conversations and open those doors in that time frame, when you get into the teen years, even though it is it's a rocky roads, you have already kind of established trust and establish, in your adoptee’s head, at least where you stand on things. And so, as you kind of get to that 12 to 18 time period, this is when the conversations become a little bit more serious. Like you said, they're not with you all the time. We do know, just from history, just from reality that children of color can be treated differently. And so, this is where you start to have honest conversations for your child's safety; “Hey, I know all the kids are going to shoot airsoft guns and that's totally fine. But could you make sure you're not facing any public {indistinct 33:04}, like make sure you're in somebody's backyard. Don't be waving them around in public.
And these are things that you may tell any kid, but we want to be conscious of, especially by people's biases that we can't control. Because our job is to protect our children. It's not to be woke or whatever. I never take this as a like liberal thing. This is we're going to do whatever we take to make sure our children come home, which is what any parent would do. And so, if you have a black child, they shouldn't wear their hoodies at night because we've seen stories where black men wearing hoodies at night, they might get pulled over or they might get stopped or all these things.
And so, this is where you have conversations just around like, how can you set yourself up for success, knowing that there are biases and views out there that we can't control. Not our views, because we've established that those aren't our values or our beliefs about people. But we do know that we can't control the public around us. And so, guns are one, you know what I mean? Like especially for black children, don't be out in your front yard with a with a public-facing road waving around a gun, even if it is a b-b gun. Be careful when you're out with friends. When driving, you know what I mean? Learn how to be very respectful, if you get pulled over. Have your driver's license, your insurance and all that. Have it in an area where it doesn't look like you're reaching for something.
And these are just things that you can do, throughout their teen years, that obviously are more uncomfortable and harder, but it also sets them up well to be independent.
And this is also where you should be having harder talks about race and racism. They probably already know, to an extent, if they went to a school or anywhere where they experienced a little bit of it. I mean, obviously there's always the Internet. But you should be having harder conversations about race and racism and about what you should do in these instances because kids have high emotions. Worst thing that could happen is somebody does something to them and our kids react violently and then our kids get in trouble.
And so, what we're doing in the teenage years is being very honest about all these viewpoints that are not ours, but we can't control that they're out there. We can't control if somebody else has a racist point of view, but we're preparing our child on how to handle them, how to talk about them, and also how best to avoid them. Like don't be driving recklessly because that's a surefire way to get pulled over. And so, we're kind of setting them up and setting that mentality around, let's be responsible. I know that it isn't fair, it isn't right, but these are the things that are going to lead to you having the best outcomes right now.
Nicole:
What about adulthood, right? Once they turn 18, do you just get to go, “Okay, I've done my job, let me just cross my fingers” or are there things that parents can still be doing at that point?
Isaac:
Yeah. Well, there's always things that we can still be doing, because 18 is not quite an adult, and usually it takes a couple years for kids to really get out there on their own. And so, at 18 and beyond, I always think that the conversation starts to shift. If you've done a good job at establishing that being whatever race they are is normal and beautiful in your home and you've been a good job of becoming a safe space, you've had those conversations early, you made them feel seen and validated and you've made it comfortable for them to come to you and say something racist happened. And then you've also prepared them. So, you've had tougher conversations around race, been honest with them in ways that are uncomfortable probably for you but will help them thrive as adults. Then when it comes to adulthood, one, you have to keep that safe space open, but understand that they're not going to feel the need to come to you as much, which is probably sad. I'm far away from that, but I'm sure it's heartbreaking in its own way, when they aren't coming to you and cuddling up with you every time they trip.
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
You know what I mean? But then you're also having to probably go through another journey that'll be heavy, which is that your child is probably now going to want to fill in some gaps in their story. They're going to be curious maybe about birth family. They might be curious around their story, if they don't have a lot of information around it.
And so, I think the job switches from preparing, being there, to really focusing on making sure that your adoptee still feels like you're a support system; that you're a safe space for them to go through what might be the ups and downs of them searching for all the missing pieces.
Most adoptees don't have a lot about their story. People that are in open adoptions, think that's fantastic. But many adoptees like myself have parts of our stories that we have no frame of reference around. And not all adoptees, but some adoptees, they choose when they're in those early like 18, 19, 20 years to go start searching. And so, you really need to be prepared for the feelings that may come up for you, but also to recognize that this is just your adoptee trying to put together pieces and put together pieces that you've probably never had to wonder about. You've never had to wonder what your birth dad looks like or what your birth mother looks like or why you have the nose that you have or the ears that you have, why your face is structured this way. For many adoptees, this is the hole that they start to try to fill in as they get through adulthood. And so, if you've done everything else correctly, now your job is really to take some of that same energy and support them, listen and be patient with them as adults fill in the missing pieces of themselves.
Nicole:
Right. Now, we’re circling back a little bit to some of the younger ages, just to follow up on some of your tips and recommended actions. For instance, you were talking about maybe seeking out African dance programs or things like that. That's sort of all requires living in a diverse area. And as you probably know, growing up in Amish country, not everybody does. So, what can the adoptive parents do if they don't have access to racial mirrors and those kinds of programs in sort of a reasonable distance from their home?
Isaac:
Yeah, I think you have to really get creative. And this could mean maybe saying every other three months you take an hour and a half trip to the nearest city and do some kind of experience. This could be if you're 2 or 3 hours away from D.C., maybe you go to the African American Museum or you go to a show in a nearby city. There are groups like Be the Bridge, there are NWACPs. So, I think you have to kind of say, “Okay, well, what can we do in our home?” So, movies, books, things like that, kind of like easy wins. And obviously, movies, you can do kind of like through adulthood. You can keep doing that and having those conversations. But then you might have to take this extra step of intentionality of saying, “Okay, well, we're going to take a summer vacation this summer. Where can we go that we could also have an experience that would be valuable for our child." And so, you start to caveat things, I think. Because you're not always going to live in a city that has all these abilities for diverse experiences. But the truth is that they're probably not super far away. So, if you're within two, an hour and a half of a city that would have these things, look it up. Be on the newsletters. You might say that, “Oh, look, they have Martin Luther King Jr. Festival that's happening and it happens every January on a Saturday and it's like a family event. Well, we're going to plan next year to make sure that we can go to that.” And you get the kids early and you get them ready and you get out there. You know what I mean?
You're going to have to plan for it. It's going to be annoying. And I know managing kids is a lot, but it doesn't have to kind of be like every week we do something. You could just plan it like, “Hey, if we don't have the privilege of being near them and we don't have the ability to move near them for whatever reason (like that's just life), we are just going to have to be creative. We might do every six months, we might be able to go to something. Every three months, we might be able to go somewhere or maybe it's once a year.” But you're just being intentional about trying to get your kid in those settings as often as you possibly can. And then you're using the Internet to fill in any gaps that you may need.
I think that sometimes it can feel a lot of pressure. You have the pressure that you're not getting your family around black people enough. And I think that's valid to some degree, but it's also there's a degree of reality. And if you have multiple kids; like there's a lot of moving pieces and parenting. And so, I always try to help parents kind of destress a little bit and think really practically about what they can do. And so, whatever's the most practical thing that you can do over the most amount of time is the best thing rather than the panic thing that you do once under a little bit of stress and then you don't do it again because you panicked, because you saw that next week there's a thing in Cincinnati and you packed everybody up in the van and you drove three hours to get there. And then that was a mess because you didn't have the - You know what I mean?
Nicole:
Right, right.
Isaac:
Whatever makes the most sense that you can do over an extended period of time that can consistently show your kids that you're committed to that. And you're the only person that can know what that schedule looks like, but it is going to take some intentionality and searching if you're in a more rural area.
Nicole:
Now, what if the child isn't interested in doing some of those cultural activities or attending events or even talking about race?
Isaac:
I think that that's fine. I think it's that it's all about creating the doorway. And so, when there are five and six, they're not obviously going to necessarily want to talk about race. What they might want to talk about is they feel uncomfortable that they look different. Or it might come out in weird ways, maybe you might not even know, but one of their friends that they go on playdates with their mom overhears them talking about, “Why is your skin different?” and all those things. And so, it might not come out necessarily through like, “I want to be around black people.” It's just that their self-consciousness around being different. And so, you want to make a lot of room for that because that's almost definitely going to come up.
Then when it comes to cultural things, it's not about forcing your kids to be in them. I always say, “If you have a 15-year-old who doesn't want to go like you don't, you don't want to make them go, but the fact that you've even opened up the door for them to be able to go, I think is really important.” So, this isn't really about forcing, especially as they get older, but it's about just creating the doorways for them to always know that this is fine and accepted. And it's like it's not weird for you to want to go to like the African American Festival. Like we have an African American festival here in Lancaster. They rent out a park and there's food vendors and there's all kinds of performances. It's like if you're in this area and you're 15-year-old doesn't want to go anymore, fine. But at least they always know that it's not weird that they that they want to go if they do. And it's not weird that you go. And so, again, it's kind of all about breaking down the idea that they don't know where you stand.
The worst thing that can happen is your child has an experience kind of similar to mine where like they have to learn about racism from somewhere else and then they don't really know where you stand. You want to just be creating more and more ways that your child can be reinforced and know like, hey, like you're on their side. You don't stand for racism. Like that's not something you agree with, something you're going to ignore if it happens to them. You're their defender and protector and you love them. And so that's clear. And that there cultural things are normal. If they want to hang out with black people, that's totally normal. They don't have to hang out with all white people. That's not a standard set. They don't have to go to just white events. They can go to African American festivals if they want to. And I think these are the things that are important that have often been missing for transracial adoptees is even the opportunity. And so, what you're doing as a transracial parent, I think even if your kids don't want to go, is you're still keeping doorways open for them to express themselves how they want to.
Nicole:
Right. Right. So, I so appreciate all the time you are giving us today. I have like three more questions for you that I think are really important If you have the time for us to continue, if that's okay.
Okay. So, as I mentioned in the introduction, some people go by the theory of being colorblind or that love is enough. So, I know you've kind of talked around that a little bit, but is there anything else about that that you want to add?
Isaac:
Yeah, I think. So, there's a couple of dangers in both of those sentiments. So, just to kind of start with colorblind, I think most of us are pretty clear, like it's impossible not to see color. And so even the ideas around that are all damaging, I think, to your relationship with your transracial adoptee, because they have to see color no matter what. Like I said, the five-year-old in their classroom, they're five. They're not even being malicious when they ask, “Why is your family white?” You know what I mean? It's going to be an instant because you're a kid and you're curious and five years old ask a million questions.
And so, your child has to see race no matter what. Like growing up, I had to see race. And so, even if it wasn't always conscious on my mind, like I knew that I was the only black person here. I also knew that, like my black friends, I also knew that like they were adopted. And so, like we always know. And so, by saying that you're colorblind or trying to be colorblind, you're already shutting down something between you and your child. So, you have to be open to understanding that people are different colors. And what comes with that in the conversations that come with that to start.
And then I think love is enough. Love is enough, I think is one of the more dangerous ideas in adoption because you're married, correct?
Nicole:
Yes.
Isaac:
We wouldn't say to you, “You know what? You decided to love your husband and love is enough. So, no matter what he does, love is enough,” right? And vice versa; “No matter what you do, love is enough.”
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
We know, as people that have partners and have kids, that love is great and it sets a tone for a relationship, but there's real work that comes. And love is so much more than just saying like, “Okay, no matter what you do or no matter how you act, I'm just going to love you.” It's working with your partner, helping them get better, them helping you get better. There is this work element to love that I think gets kind of disregarded when we say love is enough in adoption.
Nicole:
Right, being willing to put the work in.
Isaac:
Yeah, we think that it's just like, “Okay, I'm just going to love this child and they're going to be fine because I love them.” But we know in relationships that's not how it works. We know that it takes work. It takes time. It takes trust. It takes becoming unselfish in a lot of our ways and collaborating.
And so, I always try to relate it to relationships because I think it's such a great example of what real love is, because real love takes work. It takes patience. It takes letting go of some of our selfishness for somebody else. And in adoption, that is really the love. It's not this idea that – I think the idea of love is enough kind of makes it seem simple. What it should be, I think, is really more like, if you love this child, you're going to put in the work to love them in the ways that they need. If you're willing to love somebody like your partner in the ways that they need to build a foundational relationship, you're going to have to take that same mentality into parenting and especially parenting adopted children. Because biological children – I'm not saying that that's like radically different, but there are things that I think we all understand, when you have biological children, are flowing a little bit more normal or naturally not normal; naturally. And when you adopt a child that doesn't have any of your DNA, doesn't have any of your biology, they're going to come with different things and you're going to have to work and love them intentionally. Not just love, love really intentionally to support them. And then when you add layers of race on top of it, you're adding a whole nother layer of work and love that you have to put in.
And this shouldn't be intimidating. I don't want it to sound like super, super intimidating. But it is the reality. I always say that when you choose to adopt, you're choosing to put together a different tool set for parenting. You're going to need to understand trauma informed. You're going to need to understand how you how you're going to do maybe do an open or closed adoption, how you're going to talk about adoption. You need a different tool set to be an adoptive parent. And that's awesome. And many people do it fantastically. But to be a transracial adoptive parent, you're also going to need a different tool set because you're not only going to need the original tools that come with adoption, but you're also going to need to be able to sit and understand the complexities of race and racism.
And so, that is what I think loving and adoptive or foster child well is. It is understanding that you're going to need a different set of tools to parent well, understanding that that does not mean it's going to be harder or easier; it's just going to be different. And if you're willing to love this child, initially, then loving them means that you're going to put in that work. You're going to learn what you need to learn. You're going to acquire the resources you need to acquire. You're going to hang out with Nicole. You're going to hang out with me, and you're going to get the knowledge that you need to thrive as a parent. And that's going to be a little bit different. That's the love. That's what Loving really looks like. And it's more than, I think, just the tag line, Love is enough.
Nicole:
I think that's really a great way to explain it and to look at it. One of the questions I get a lot from my clients, when they're at the beginning of the process and they're kind of trying to figure out what do they think about possibly adopting transracially. And a lot of times, they talk about how they are willing to educate themselves and put in the work, and they're actually really excited about that. But they're worried that their extended family won't or that maybe their extended family doesn't even believe that racism is a thing. What would you say to those potential parents?
Isaac:
I would say have those conversations early. Know what you're walking into. If you have that inkling and that feeling, you're probably to some degree right. And having those conversations before a child gets put in your home, to me, an act of love. It's another one of these like real acts of love. It's setting the tone for how you expect your family to treat this child and to see this child, the things that you will and won't allow.
I don't think it means that you shouldn't necessarily adopt, but you shouldn't adopt unless you're willing to walk into a little bit of that complex place. Because really, the likelihood of your family not accepting the child, I think is pretty small. No matter what the race is, most grandparents are just excited to be grandparents and they're probably not even thinking about the race, if that makes sense.
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
It’s like, “Great. We're adopting.” There's usually this positive energy around adopting and no matter what the race. But what becomes the concern, and I think the concern for parents, is that not that they're not going to accept that they're black, but they're never going to see the child as a black person. And so that's going to lead to all these secondary issues. And so, I think that's the thing that you need to address before they get into the home is just saying like, “Hey, like we're going to adopt this black child. And while we might have members of his birth family; like they might be at some of our events and you need to be comfortable with that. And we might have different kinds of toys and TV shows playing, and you need to be comfortable with that.” And hey, like sometimes you say things that are – maybe you don't want to get into this, but maybe if it comes up – they say something that might seem a little bit ignorant, you address it and say like, “Hey, like that's a little bit uncomfortable. I wouldn't want our child to hear that because we wouldn't want them to think about themselves like that.”
And you got to understand that when you speak like that about people, again, it kind of goes back to the bias thing, when you speak like that about people that look like our child, they're going to internalize it.
And so, one of the greatest examples that I have of that is that one of the only memories I have of a black person on TV, really, other than like Little Bill and like Fresh Prince, was when Obama became president. And I remember I have vivid memories of my parents and other people talking badly about Obama. And I really could never understand why, because you're young, you don't understand politics. I can never understand why they didn't like Obama. But what I did know was that he was the only black guy that I was seeing in the on the TV.
Nicole:
Right.
Isaac:
And I knew like that was the connection point. Kids have limited purview. And so, if you start talking bad about black people that are on the TV, they're not going to see any of the political opinions or anything like that. They're going to see that they're black and they're black and they're going to start resonating with that.
And so, when it comes to family conversations, I think that's really what you need to watch out for. You need to be willing to step into an uncomfortable place, but you really just need to make sure that they're willing to go on the journey with you and respect the boundaries that you set.
Nicole:
Last question for you, I promise. Expanding beyond the family, what should the parents do or how should they handle it if – and I almost want to say when, because it seems almost inevitable – when a stranger makes an inappropriate comment?
Isaac:
Yeah. Strangers is complicated. I always say when it comes to stranger comments, you don't owe strangers anything. And so, whatever and however you react is ultimately going to be, I think, the basis for how the child learns to react as well. And so, they're going to see you maybe be dismissive and okay with it. And so, they're going to think that they have to be the same one day. You know what I mean? This is another viewpoint thing where if you always let people say inappropriate things in the grocery store, when people say inappropriate things to them, they they're in life, their direct memory is going to be back to you and how you handle it. And that's how they're going to handle it.
So, I always say, however you would want your child to react is how you should too. And so, set an example of what standing up for yourself or standing up means. It doesn't mean you have to be mean to the person back. But if somebody comes up and says like, “Oh, you're such a good person for saving this child,” well, stop the interaction. Don't just say, “Thank you” and try to move fast {indistinct 57:13 – 14} actually know that we've adopted this child, but we didn't save them. We're just their parents. And I'd appreciate it if you didn't say those kinds of things because our child is great, and I'm sure they would have had a great life with or without us.” And you set this tone. It's not about being mean to other people, but you set a tone for how your child should also see themselves, especially when they're in those moments with you.
Nicole:
Right. And I think that's interesting, what you said, is that you don't owe anything to the strangers, because I feel like people get so surprised and taken by surprise and they feel like they owe them an answer. But ultimately, who you owe to is your child. So, the answer that you give or the way you respond needs to be all about what you want them to hear and see and really what you want the stranger to hear and see is secondary, right?
Isaac:
Absolutely. Exactly. That's why don't have to be disrespectful, but you do need to have a response that feels like something your child could almost also say.
Nicole:
Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. Well, Isaac, I so appreciate you being so generous with your time today. And again, my listeners, my guest has been Isaac Etter. He's founder of Identity. The best way to reach him is via email. It's isaac(i-s-a-a-c)@identitylearning.co. It's just co not com, is that correct?
Isaac:
Yeah. And Instagram is always easy too, if that's easier for people; @isaac_etter.
Nicole:
Okay. Which is E-T-T-E-R.
Nicole:
People can always go to isaacetter.com, too, whatever kind of is simplest for how you move around.
Nicole:
Okay. And Isaac has also very generously offered a discount of 25% off of his learning community memberships. So, if you're interested in that, just use code: 25, meaning the digit 2 followed by the digit 5 at checkout.
But of course, listeners, most of all, I'd like to thank you for tuning in. I hope you've heard something today that has opened your eyes and really given you food for thought, as well as confidence in preparing for a transracial adoption. Take care and I'll catch you next time.